Biden and Pelosi have both been talking out of both sides of their mouths on "pairing" passage of the BIF and BBB bills, and then seeming to back ofr, but "not really". Seems like blaming poor Klain is both unfair and absurd, as have been the concommitant comments about how "Manchin is on board", and other statements designed, it would seem, to mislead progressives into backing down on BIF without a prior iron-clad agreement from Manchin. Frankly, I strongly suspect that charades have been played to obscure the obvious, which was known to all: Manchin has always been highly resistant to BBB, the progressives have no real love for Biden, and want to utterly dominate the entire Dem caucus, regardless of outcome. In other words, they want to be in complete control of the party, when the shit hits the mid-term shit hits the fan (as they damn well know, and have known, is coming. Nancy and Joe are "so yesterday" in their view, and so they have no problem taking the short-term strategic hit now, to prepare the playing field for 2024 - when they feel their time to rule will have come.
"But if BBB dies … well, since many progressives only support the bipartisan 'hard' infrastructure bill if it’s twinned with BBB, it’s possible enough of them might vote against the bipartisan bill to sink it too. (It would only take 4 or 5, out of a 'Progressive Caucus' of 94 members, to do that.)"
Please explain your math: Wouldn't it take a lot more than only 4 or 5 Progs to sink the bill, especially since a number of Republicans are on board with that "bipartisan" POS?
I think I heard Newt Gingrich addressing this earlier today but I was half asleep so I'll share my thoughts which may or may not be consonant with his thinking.
The message you delivered to the House GOP members who support BIF - yes, I understand that you support the bipartisan infrastructure, but you also objected to tying BIF to BBB. That was done as a form of blackmail, to get BBB approved even though many are opposed to it. Let's turn the tying on its head. If all GOP House members voted against BIF, it will only take a small number of progressives who voted against BIF because BBB is too small for them. Then, neither one passes. You can go on record saying you'd like to support BIF, but only if it is uncoupled from BBB.
Will it happen? I'll bet not but it's at least theoretically possible that a few honest members of Congress who oppose this mindless spending could take a stand and stop it.
Are Biden, Pelosi, Schumer and even McConnell in cahoots with Manchin (and to an extent, Sinema) in order to quash the rise of the Progressives?
Think about it. Biden was never ‘progressive’ in his long, un-illustrious career and emphatically campaigned on moderate political action.
Pelosi’s canny enough to know the Dems get wiped out in 2022. To preserve some semblance of legacy she’ll want to re-orient the Dems back to Moderate and destroy the Progressives by making them responsible for the midterm wipeout. The establishment Democrat priority now is to reduce the Progressive threat in 2024.
Schumer and McConnell are interchangeable - they both make money selling votes to one another regardless of which one is the Senate Leader - and Thune will want that status quo when it’s his turn to lead the GOP senators. What neither wants though is to have to deal with impassable ‘progressive’ legislation coming from the house. [ergo the earlier bipartisan BIF in an effort to sidestep the BBB nonsense].
If one posits that Biden was made president by the hidden people running the Dems and White House these days - Obama? - and Kamala Harris was installed to replace Biden directly and soon, then Biden, the career senator, may be working with senate allies - Manchin - to preserve his presidency the best he can. After all, Harris has been disappeared lately since being given next to impossible tasks. Note there has been no glowing media profiles of her for awhile.
Manchin has effectively taken President of the Senate Harris’ tie-breaking role away from her. The high profile that would have come from being the deciding vote of progressive legislation can’t happen while Manchin holds the power he has seized (and Sinema is the back up if Manchin falters or gets politically whacked).
Wouldn’t be surprised to see a Manchin presidential run in 2024. Maybe even Sinema in as the Veep candidate. If so, bye bye Harris, bye bye Progressives. They’d definitely give Trump and / or DiSantis a run for their money.
Maybe Joe Biden did something good for his country after all.
Yep, they're in cahoots. Just like when the tea party was seemingly on the rise. Both parties were hell bent on keeping them as insignificant as possible. Even going as far as getting the IRS involved. They're going to find out that the squad of regressives, and illiberals won't back down. They're true believers of socialism, as long as they're in charge and get to punish the nonbelievers. But who knows, maybe the TPTB will drop a few scandals "real or manufactured" on the squad. Just like they did with the tea party.
Manchin reaching for the brass ring in '24. Hmm. He'd have a shot. But he's up for re-election to the Senate that year, too. Does West Virginia have one of those deals like Connecticut did in 2000 where you can run on the national ticket AND for reelection to your Senate seat, too? If he loses the presidency, he'd have a tough time getting back into the Senate from WVA in a subsequent election, wouldn't he?
Klain reveals himself in his Twitter feed to be a strategist and braveheart of miniscule proportions. He retweets the most abject lib opium farmers in times of trouble and accepts compliments and predictions from DNC hangers on and freelance sad sacks. The man is a goofball. Which beats being a meds poppet but not by much.
"Especially if it turns out that Biden made the fateful decision himself. "
I like your touching faith that Biden makes any decision personally
Indeed. I doubt Zhou Bai-den can find Capitol Hill by himself.
Biden and Pelosi have both been talking out of both sides of their mouths on "pairing" passage of the BIF and BBB bills, and then seeming to back ofr, but "not really". Seems like blaming poor Klain is both unfair and absurd, as have been the concommitant comments about how "Manchin is on board", and other statements designed, it would seem, to mislead progressives into backing down on BIF without a prior iron-clad agreement from Manchin. Frankly, I strongly suspect that charades have been played to obscure the obvious, which was known to all: Manchin has always been highly resistant to BBB, the progressives have no real love for Biden, and want to utterly dominate the entire Dem caucus, regardless of outcome. In other words, they want to be in complete control of the party, when the shit hits the mid-term shit hits the fan (as they damn well know, and have known, is coming. Nancy and Joe are "so yesterday" in their view, and so they have no problem taking the short-term strategic hit now, to prepare the playing field for 2024 - when they feel their time to rule will have come.
"But if BBB dies … well, since many progressives only support the bipartisan 'hard' infrastructure bill if it’s twinned with BBB, it’s possible enough of them might vote against the bipartisan bill to sink it too. (It would only take 4 or 5, out of a 'Progressive Caucus' of 94 members, to do that.)"
Please explain your math: Wouldn't it take a lot more than only 4 or 5 Progs to sink the bill, especially since a number of Republicans are on board with that "bipartisan" POS?
I think I heard Newt Gingrich addressing this earlier today but I was half asleep so I'll share my thoughts which may or may not be consonant with his thinking.
The message you delivered to the House GOP members who support BIF - yes, I understand that you support the bipartisan infrastructure, but you also objected to tying BIF to BBB. That was done as a form of blackmail, to get BBB approved even though many are opposed to it. Let's turn the tying on its head. If all GOP House members voted against BIF, it will only take a small number of progressives who voted against BIF because BBB is too small for them. Then, neither one passes. You can go on record saying you'd like to support BIF, but only if it is uncoupled from BBB.
Will it happen? I'll bet not but it's at least theoretically possible that a few honest members of Congress who oppose this mindless spending could take a stand and stop it.
But the infrastructure bill is being touted as "bipartisan," which means that not all Republicans will vote against it.
Picking up on Turner's point below, maybe Biden went to the Hill to ask, and just plumb forgot. Talk about summing up a presidency.
Are Biden, Pelosi, Schumer and even McConnell in cahoots with Manchin (and to an extent, Sinema) in order to quash the rise of the Progressives?
Think about it. Biden was never ‘progressive’ in his long, un-illustrious career and emphatically campaigned on moderate political action.
Pelosi’s canny enough to know the Dems get wiped out in 2022. To preserve some semblance of legacy she’ll want to re-orient the Dems back to Moderate and destroy the Progressives by making them responsible for the midterm wipeout. The establishment Democrat priority now is to reduce the Progressive threat in 2024.
Schumer and McConnell are interchangeable - they both make money selling votes to one another regardless of which one is the Senate Leader - and Thune will want that status quo when it’s his turn to lead the GOP senators. What neither wants though is to have to deal with impassable ‘progressive’ legislation coming from the house. [ergo the earlier bipartisan BIF in an effort to sidestep the BBB nonsense].
If one posits that Biden was made president by the hidden people running the Dems and White House these days - Obama? - and Kamala Harris was installed to replace Biden directly and soon, then Biden, the career senator, may be working with senate allies - Manchin - to preserve his presidency the best he can. After all, Harris has been disappeared lately since being given next to impossible tasks. Note there has been no glowing media profiles of her for awhile.
Manchin has effectively taken President of the Senate Harris’ tie-breaking role away from her. The high profile that would have come from being the deciding vote of progressive legislation can’t happen while Manchin holds the power he has seized (and Sinema is the back up if Manchin falters or gets politically whacked).
Wouldn’t be surprised to see a Manchin presidential run in 2024. Maybe even Sinema in as the Veep candidate. If so, bye bye Harris, bye bye Progressives. They’d definitely give Trump and / or DiSantis a run for their money.
Maybe Joe Biden did something good for his country after all.
Yep, they're in cahoots. Just like when the tea party was seemingly on the rise. Both parties were hell bent on keeping them as insignificant as possible. Even going as far as getting the IRS involved. They're going to find out that the squad of regressives, and illiberals won't back down. They're true believers of socialism, as long as they're in charge and get to punish the nonbelievers. But who knows, maybe the TPTB will drop a few scandals "real or manufactured" on the squad. Just like they did with the tea party.
Manchin reaching for the brass ring in '24. Hmm. He'd have a shot. But he's up for re-election to the Senate that year, too. Does West Virginia have one of those deals like Connecticut did in 2000 where you can run on the national ticket AND for reelection to your Senate seat, too? If he loses the presidency, he'd have a tough time getting back into the Senate from WVA in a subsequent election, wouldn't he?
I wonder how old Satchel Paige feels today?
Klain reveals himself in his Twitter feed to be a strategist and braveheart of miniscule proportions. He retweets the most abject lib opium farmers in times of trouble and accepts compliments and predictions from DNC hangers on and freelance sad sacks. The man is a goofball. Which beats being a meds poppet but not by much.